Comment by 🐝 undefined
Re: "What could a protocol-native cult hit look like?"
@mediocregopher I've thought about that too, but what could you do with that that you couldn't do with cookies? They seem like exactly the same thing, just more explicit for the user. Not like you couldn't do that with cookies if you wanted to?
2025-05-22 · 1 year ago
20 Later Comments ↓
🐝 undefined · 2025-05-22 at 08:16:
Nah scratch that, not exactly the same but still
🚀 clseibold [🛂] · 2025-05-22 at 09:07:
@mediocregopher An app or piece of art doesn't have to be unique to become a cult hit, so I'm having trouble understanding your reasonings here.
Games were done on many of these other textual protocols, particularly BBS Door Games (which someone else mentioned previously). MUDs eventually become MMORPGs on the web, and MMO text-based games like Ogame, etc. Ogame became a hit even though before it there were hit MUDs. Runescape became a hit even though Ogame and MUDs were hits themselves. None of these were the first of their genres, and none of them innovated technologically (e.g., Ultima Online predates Runescape), but their uniqueness comes from the game in its entirety - the game mechanics, story, art, etc. - rather than its *technical innovations.*
And the same can be said for all the other forms of **artistic** expression. Books with the same premeses both become hits or cult classics, many using the same techniques in writing.
Even apps that repeat the same idea over again can still become popular in their own way. BBSs and Mailing Lists, terminal spreadsheets to graphical spreadsheets to web spreadsheets. They change platforms, throw in a couple of different functionalities or design changes, and that works just fine.
Because ultimately, it doesn't really matter if something is completely unique, only that it suits the needs of the people using it at the moment in time where that person was *introduced* to it. If I was introduced to Google Docs at a young age, I don't know anything about Word to even know that Google Docs was not unique. It just doesn't matter.
Innovative ideas might *help*, but they are not the major deciding factor. If we're going to be systematic here, then the entire crux of your argument - that uniqueness matters - must also be questioned. Historically, I would argue that it doesn't, at least not to the degree that you seem to be arguing for.
For art, part of the reason that non-unique art becomes popular is because you cannot assume that everyone has experienced the previous art that might be being "reused" or whatever. Just because Avatar has an overused plot doesn't mean I don't love Avatar's plot because of my own experience of watching something that I've never seen myself before. The plot may not have been new, but it was *new to me*. And that's really the key here.
And it's the only thing that matters, because the point of art is not necessarily uniqueness, it's the evocation of feelings and ideas. That's is the purpose of much good art.
David Guetta's I'm Blue didn't become popular because people like reused songs. It became popular because not everyone heard Blue by Eiffel! And because it evoked a feeling that people loved. And that's not a bad thing. *That's* art!
A person need only create really great art (that could be exclusive to Gemini) for it to become a *cult* hit, at the very least.
For example, Gemini is great at interactive fiction. If someone wrote a great interactive fiction in Gemini, it could become a cult hit. It *doesn't matter* that it can be ported to a different platform, only that the author *chose* Gemini to begin with!
And it's not like we're speaking of universal critically acclaimed hits here. We're talking about cult hits, so Astrobotany is already a cult hit in the Gemini community, lol.
😎 bababooey [OP/mod] · 2025-05-22 at 10:15:
I think that one of the more direct ways of increasing Gemini's popularity could be to bring one or more popular authors or subject matter experts over and portraying Gemini as a walled garden for accessing their writing.
For example, I could see leaders in academic niches exclusively using Gemini to publish articles, given that Gemini would be a setting where they'd know that they'd be reaching people who are voraciously passionate about their field of work.
You can extrapolate on this and imagine all the ways in which Gemini being primarily text-based in combination with its technical limitations could bring a tangible value to people in a way that the mainstream internet couldn't.
🚀 clseibold [🛂] · 2025-05-22 at 10:25:
I mean, yeah. Publication exclusivity is done in the publishing industry for a reason, because it works very very well, lol.
🚀 clarahd · 2025-05-22 at 12:08:
To me Lagrange, gemini KOReader plugin, and the proxies/portals I listed in the ereader sub were critical mass.
Now I can have a pleasant experience reading from the internet on a low power ereader's eink screen. The protocol is simple enough to be ported to dumbphones.
A community would likely have a different vibe as it goes from unix pioneers to ubuntu fanboys to reddit operators though. What would spare Gemini, other than perhaps the technical or obscurity obstacles it puts up. Or filtering out those that like youtube unpacking videos.
💎 pista · 2025-05-22 at 12:10:
@csleibold
It *doesn't matter* that it can be ported to a different platform, only that the author *chose* Gemini to begin with!
This is what I’ve been saying since I first got involved in Gemini. This space needs original things that only exist here or people have no reason to fire up a Gemini browser. And we need as many people with as many diverse interests as possible to create them.
Way too many people tried to fill up Gemini early on by porting over Web projects (generally in an inferior form).
That’s why this BBS is so great. It’s only here and it’s built for here. It gives us a reason to hop on Gemini every day.
🦀 Proton · 2025-05-22 at 20:15:
What keeps me visiting: lagrange\ What keeps me leaving: every capsule on here is a blog about the same 3 topics with 0 diversity and very insular inward looking mentality
🚀 hum0r · 2025-05-22 at 22:29:
Along with many of the comments about gated content (art/writing/games), I personally think specialized hardware would be a big boon to the gemini population. I personally imagine something like an e-reader with a physical keyboard - or another type of device created specifically to take advantage of the Gemini ecosystem. There are so many Cyberdecks that generate a lot of publicity online, and I think custom hardware could do the same for Gemini.
🚀 clseibold [🛂] · 2025-05-24 at 03:10:
@pista Sure! This is a great distinction to bring up: I'm not necessarily discounting unique *content* as one aspect that affects whether something becomes a hit, but I am discounting unique technological innovation. Very often we can find superior platforms or technological ideas don't succeed whereas the inferior ones do, and one reason for this is because of the content that you can find on that platform. And part of the content often includes art.
And yet, I think there's a very important difference between art that is entirely unique and the experience of the art being new to a particular audience. Art that feels new is oftentimes not unique. The perceptual originality of the experience of the art matters more than its original mechanics. I think this view is more consistent with real-world examples of art that become hits.
🐙 norayr · 2025-05-25 at 01:06:
of course nobody can or wishes to restrict adoption of gemini.
i think everyone in this thread basically agrees on most of things.
but there is misunderstanding about terms. what 'success' means can be very different.
and i guess many of us (me certainly) are not fans of the 'success' in startup or corporate app style.
we are not competing, we are not imposing, we just use the protocol and have fun.
however i do believe that gemini achieved success (though i dislike the word and its use in connection with gemini).
there are lots of people who use the protocol and have fun with it. if i had invented some protocol, i don't think it would lead to such adoption. gemini finds resonanse in some people's hearts.
and doesn't find in others' hearts.
i tried to show gemini to many: it has zero appeal to 99.999999% of people i shown it to.
they don't care and don't feel what i feel and how i relate to gemini.
that's fine. it's not for 'mainstream' user, as well as certain types of music are not for everyone's taste.
and it shouldn't be.
ploum has this article, called, i think, stop trying social networks succeed.
🐙 norayr · 2025-05-25 at 01:08:
— ploum.net/2023-07-06-stop-trying-to-make-social-networks-succeed.gmi
🚀 clseibold [🛂] · 2025-05-25 at 03:44:
All I would have to say is I don't like this use of the word mainstream, because I'm part of the mainstream and I use Gemini. Mainstream is often used as a way of lumping everyone together without distinguishing between the people. Gemini, right now, appeals mostly to tech people because it's tech-focused.
It also appeals to people who understand the text-focused vision, but not everybody understands the text-focused vision, or more likely, *it's particular* text-focused vision.
I've showed Gemini to other people as well, and many of them say that they don't understand the lack of things like images and styling. **That's not automatically them being "mainstream"**, and I find that to be very reductive, especially when most of these people I've showed it to were programmers.
The reality is most people like a mix of mainstream and niche things.
The thing people have a problem with in Gemini is that they don't understand the reasons for the lack of visual artistic expression, OR that they don't understand its very restrictive version of typography (lack of inline markup like emphasis and strong, lack of inline links, etc.). *Those* are the reasons why some people don't get the protocol, and some of them are protocol limitations, mostly. Which is fine. They don't have to get it, although some of this is the fault of Gemini users who misunderstand Gemini's own purpose and capabilities, lmao.
💎 pista · 2025-05-25 at 04:05:
I do really wish we had either italics or underline. The lack of those makes writing that includes attributions or foreign words a lot uglier than it needs to be.
🚀 hum0r · 2025-05-25 at 16:09:
Another topic to consider: If someone uses Gemini to release software or some other kind of work they feel they should be compensated for; does that seemingly go against the Gemini ethos? At what point does rewarding an individual's work turn into corporatization? When they found an LLC?
🚀 stack · 2025-05-25 at 18:07:
I think we object to being taken advantage of by corporations in the Web space (such as private information collected and traded without our consent). Doing useful work and perhaps getting paid for it by those who enjoy the benefits is hard to object to!
Corporate personhood is a whole other question, and is entirely off topic, don't you think?
🚀 clarahd · 2025-05-30 at 17:00:
I think this post suggests a priority app for the Gemini protocol - what to use instead of Google Maps Business Reviews if they will know everything about your web activity, and then control what answers you get by redirecting only to themselves and large corporate partners.
— bbs.geminispace.org/u/Sophira/29053
Perspective of someone new to the space (most of which has already been said), 1. exclusive content, bring people back to the joy of the written word. 2. clients for phones (saying this as someone who doesn't have a browser on their phone, but its how most people use the internet and there is one ios app which is pretty rough)
🚀 stack · 2025-05-30 at 20:03:
Writing on my very old phone with Lagrange.
Anything written on Gemini is easily proxied to the web or any other protocol.
💎 pista · 2025-05-30 at 21:28:
If you aren't using Lagrange for iOS you're doing it wrong.
Having to compile from source isnt very available, though i will do it, the majority wont. Proxy is similar, random reader on the street will be put off. It needs to be a few clicks to be mainstream. And you then can have a higher reader to writter ratio.
edit. ok figured out its on testflight and have it working on tablet, it is delightful but even that was a few more clicks than your avg bystander would go through.
Original Post
What could a protocol-native cult hit look like? — Is it likely that Gemini will soon see a cult hit that leverages the protocol's strengths while embracing its limitations? What do you think that such a project could look like?