Comment by 🚀 argyle
Or you disarm one very specific kind of gun agents use, which makes you think this guy is one of us, and probably has another gun or weapon on him. It's not like he brought a Saturday Night Special in to this party.
Jan 27 · 3 months ago
24 Later Comments ↓
Yes, when you bring a gun and extra ammo to a riot there us a good chance you have another one.
I don't think ICE agents should carry guns. They're not enforcing any laws directly related to violence.
If they're carrying out an operation where violence is an element they should partner with the appropriate agency. Like the DEA, FBI, whatever agency has the correct expertise for the particular situation.
I think the fact that they're carrying speaks to their true mission, which isn't about enforcing laws - it's about intimidation.
@stack @bluesman - I unpublished a couple of your comments since they were veering off-topic and into personal insults territory. Feel free to rephrase your points in a way that is more in line with the Code of Conduct.
For the record, since this was brought up by @bluesman, @clseibold has been warned of his abrasive behavior on BBS on multiple occasions, over the past year or two, when interacting with a number of users. Alas, he declined to respect the rules.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 10:58:
@jprjr It's obvious to me ICE is not trained for nor should it be responsible for crowd control. A judge agrees and has limited ICE's ability. So why are they responsible in the first place? These events are stress tests for leadership all around. Is the state refusing to provide crowd control or is ICE refusing to coordinate with the state? Given the language and behavior out of the federal government, I'm willing to bet they refuse to coordinate with state and local law enforcement. And again, the disproportionate size reveals the end game: it is about stoking fear in the community.
As it was announced that ICE is pulling back some of its agents, Representative James Comer (not from Minnesota) might have revealed the strategy behind why ICE is stoking fear. He says that he hopes the people of Minnesota "rebel against their leadership" meaning state and local politicians.
Exactly. I think ICE should be an agency that flies under the radar. They shouldn't be out patrolling streets. They should be more like detectives - gather evidence and build a case. Get a warrant. Go make targeted, specific arrests. That's what would make the most sense given their supposed mission.
Imagine if an agency like the SEC patrolled Manhattan streets with guns. That would be ridiculous because they're not dealing with crimes that put anybody in immediate, life-threatening danger.
That's how I feel about ICE
Technically, they claim that they are in fact focusing on violent criminals.
Organized harrassment explains exactly why they are wearing masks and are armed to the teeth.
I do wish things were different, but what happened is like a greek tragedy, completely predictable, and I believe, entirely planned and acceptable to politicians.
They will have 'important talks' and 'save the world' again, soon.
Viewing this matter dispassionately ...
The videos I have seen show one individual turning and moving into the street away from the melee followed by another individual (located near the sidewalk) drawing and discharging his weapon.
The actions and timeline depicted tell me that:
1. Mr Pretti's pistol was removed from its holster and removed from the melee by the first individual.
2. When the pistol was removed it was seen by the second individual who perceived it to be a threat and then drew and used his own weapon.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 17:23:
@stack They may claim it. ICE is currently holding twice as many people who have no criminal record vs people who do, according to ICE's own data. ICE has held more people without a criminal record since September. If there is focus on violent criminals, it doesn't bear it in their own data.
Immigration shouldn't be treated as a dangerous crime.
If you want to go after dangerous criminals we have plenty of existing agencies that can handle dealing with dangerous criminals.
Let the US Marshals get people in custody then let ICE handle the deportation process.
They shouldn't be police-like agents, they should be white-collar bureaucrats. An ICE agent should be a guy that shows up with court orders, not guns.
Absolutely ridiculous that we're treating immigration issues like it's some kind of dangerous thing. We're ultimately talking about people who didn't do some paperwork. That's it. That's the crime.
Democratic operatives have been flooding the country with illegal immigrants to try to control the country and policy. This is an army. It is not simply just "immigrants".
That's crazy.
Well, they are saying that the focus is actual criminals. The reality is that these are hard to catch, so many abuelas get grabbed.
I don't think overstayed visas are the problem. Most 'illegals' had walked across the border, some after crossing many countries.
Most of them could never get a tourist visa.
You have to prove to th US that you have financial security, no criminal record, and have something/someone to come back to.
You pretty much have to have a job, own real estate and have family behind.
Having a large number of undocumented people presents a problem for the bureaucrats, as they have no idea who is a criminal and who would make a perfect citizen.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 21:54:
That's a problem with what the administration is telling the public then. They should stop saying they're going after actual criminals and be truthful. I also want a pony while I'm wishing.
To date judges have ruled over 2,000 people have been detained illegally. And it has recently come to my attention that dozens of court orders have been ignored by ICE in recent weeks. I was keyed in by a judge summoning ICE director Todd Lyons to testify under overt threat of contempt of court if he fails to appear. Judge Schlitz wrote “the extent of ICE’s violation of court orders is likewise extraordinary, and lesser measures have been tried and failed. ... The Court’s patience is at an end"
This agency is beginning to look more and more lawless.
According to Factually, about half the detainees either have criminal convictions or are in the process of being convicted. Center for Immigration Studies has a multi-year study showing 36.2% convicted, 12.8% with pending charges and ~51% 'other immigration violator'.
Violent offences show <10%, with many convictions being for minor offences and possibly traffic violations.
Other sources are quoted there.
50% may sound bad, but in reality there is a high probability that the convicted offender has family that gets kicked out also.
I would be curious to see how many indpendent people with no convictions get rounded up. I suspect not too many.
But in the end, according to current laws, they should not be here anyway.
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 00:49:
I hit refresh on the factually link, because it said it was potentially out of date.
"Syracuse University’s TRAC and other compilers reported about 72 percent with no conviction as of September 21, 2025" other sources figure about this number as well. It does a good job explaining that "no conviction" doesn't mean "no threat."
Given the shift in policy a multi-year study is best for examining how policy was working before.
Yes, there are a few places where no-conviction is defined as 'with possible conviction pending'.
Sorry about the link, copied before clicking through to updated data.
I watched all the videos I could find, and now think that the first fed committed assault and should probably go up for felony murder. The other feds who fired appear to act within the law.
Having said that, bringing a gun to wrestle cops increases your probability of death significantly.
I question this man's judgment and sanity. He was was not in the crowd of protestors, but started directing traffic and definitely stepped in and got into the cop's face. It really feels like he felt empowered by having a loaded weapon...
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 12:15:
It's a tough watch. I try to unravel the events to determine the cause and effect.
I have a few questions I'd like you to reflect on. No need to repond with answers.
Do you think ICE got who they were after? Do you think that person had a criminal record? Is the ICE presence proportional and necessary?
@argyle yeah! and they also eat dogs! or cats....whatever
ICE absolutely should not be there. Also, borders, taxes, and entitlements.
But I don't want to get too off-topic.
The cause here, returning to the OP is that an irresponsible child brought a gun and extra ammo to a riot (no, he did not forget that he had it), walked around like a cockrel, got in the face of a fed doing his job (poorly) under a presidential order, and got himself shot. He made many bad choices that led to his unfortunate death. His family may get a few bucks because the one fed was out of line, but the others who shot him will probably keep qualified immunity.
Minnesota laws recognize a strict duty to retreat, so if he had tried to use his weapon it would be highly illegal -- he had many opportunities to _not_ go to the riot. In that state, if you have a chance to walk away but wind up using a firearm you go to jail. So please stop saying that he had a 'right' or pretending to support the Second Amendment.
Taking responsibility for one's actions is not something I see much of. Having a government to blame is a sign of not growing up. You can say ICE is responsible for this, or Trump. You can say it's the Democrat's fault for not providing an electable candidate. Maybe it's the founding fathers' fault for not making a better Constitution.
Or just don't bring a gun to a riot.
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 19:49:
I just learned he was suffering from a broken rib sustained from a recent encounter with ICE on another day. Whistling and shouting were what provoked ICE that time, according to people who knew about it. He sustained the injury when he was tackled and the agent leaned hard on his back. We don't have a video to judge that encounter and ICE kept no record of it. No word on if he had a firearm that time. But it is a reasonable assessment to say he repeatedly put himself in these situations. Now what provoked the events that lead to his death? We do have that video. It was a disproportionate response from an undisciplined agent. There's a lot of that from the top down, agency wide.
The second amendment argument is important. When the officials started down the same gaslighting path it riled traditional right wing organizations like the NRA. Suddenly, this event is getting an investigation, contrasted with the outright malfeasance after Renee Good was killed.
@crynick What I'm saying isn't political opinion. The left is using immigrants like it used African Americans after the Civil War. Ice is after the violent ones specifically, but really it is about having borders and a country. Othewise, the goal is to flood the US population out with foreign people who depend on the handouts the Democrats supply so they can get the votes and policies they want in place.
This thread is getting too long for meaningful discussion. Please make new posts about specific topics.
Original Post
Execution by ICE — Today a man was executed by ICE agents near Minneapolis, Minnesota. Videos have been circulated created by the diligent community members who have been tracking and recording everything ICE does. The national news outlets and social media platforms have been trying to remove these videos as they have shown just how corrupt this government has become. People need to be aware of this and start talking. For the past two months we have been working as a community to setup...