halow (802.11ah) + b.a.t.m.a.n (802.11s) + yggdrasil
i have learnt about HaLow here.
low power wifi on lower frequencies, lower speed but longer distances.
open standard so can be and is implemented by different parties, unlike lorawan.
then there's a mesh technology for wifi networks and as i understand, there are halow cards that also support b.a.t.m.a.n.
okay, we have physical connection, but what about dynamic routing and packet forwarding?
here yggdrasil comes to mind.
it can do that on ip layer.
so do you think it'll work?
then it's possible to create better mesh than menhtastic.
main advantage: usage of tcp/ip. do whatever you want over it.
main disadvantage: power consumption. yggdrasil requires linux and more powerful boards.
2025-12-28 · 4 months ago · 👍 Cotteux
12 Comments ↓
🐙 norayr [OP] · Dec 28 at 02:53:
as a consequence of power consumption panel of reasonabre size won't be able to recharge a small battery in a way to have 24/7 service.
such static nodes should be powered by community members from the grid.
which makes the static nodes less useful in case of disasters.
however given high density of users halow meshes may work, and even there can be nodes connected to internet so if such a node is reachable via some nodes in independent infra, all yggdrasil services also can be reachable to these nodes.
I think Reticulum is built just for this. And it can cross communicate between carrier platforms and devices. I have it set up on the web but I can communicate with those who have portals linked to radio networks just as well.
https://reticulum.network/
I check Halow system, the cost is high. I check to test the LORA sx1280 on 2.4 GHZ with Reticulum. Seem to have good speed (200kps), low power consuption, and long distance.
At the moment, I work with LORA 10.94kps at 1.5 km distance.
🚀 auzzie32 [ND mesh admin] · Jan 11 at 21:29:
Its an interesting project too. My nodes are tower mounted and solar powered. If I had less efficient nodes and needed to run power cable it would take a lot of time and extra equipment.
🐙 norayr [OP] · Jan 11 at 23:39:
yeah it can't cowpete with esp32 by power efficiency
🐦 JustASillyBird · Feb 07 at 23:22:
HaLow is cool, but it's surprisingly hard to get hold of the hardware - there isn't much of it,and what there is is mostly made for SPI interfacing. Not the most versatile interface.
Reticulum has tremendous potential, but because it's a complete re-invention of the network stack it's also a nightmare to set up any new application - you have to specifically re-write it for Reticulum. You can't just open a port and run IP over it. The strength is also the weakness.
Still, you don't really have much choice. the 868/900 band is just too narrow and low-power to run something like conventional wi-fi.
If you're doing point-to-point though, well... wifi goes a very long way with a parabolic and tower.
🐦 JustASillyBird · Feb 07 at 23:28:
I also add: An ESP32 or similar can run only the most basic mesh routing algorithms and small frames. It just doesn't have the hardware for anything more. That's fine for a crude messaging system like meshtastic or meshcore. But, if you're planning on any serious networking, that's not going to cut it.
BATMAN, or Reticulum, or yaggrasil? You need something with more capability and a full OS stack. Nothing fancy, a Pi Zero will do the job just fine, and you can tune those down to draw less than a watt. But that's still a fair amount when you're on a compact solar budget.
🐙 norayr [OP] · Feb 08 at 23:15:
i realized we don't need a mesh network like batman to make a mesh with yggdrasil.
yggdrasil will create a mesh over any hierarchical network.
we can just build any network, with private ips, and run yggdrasil, it'll create a mesh and will dynamically find routes.
🐙 norayr [OP] · Feb 08 at 23:17:
@JustASillyBird, yes that's also why i love ygg, just run any software over it.
some of my friends run xmpp servers over it, i experimented with ssb over it.
🐦 JustASillyBird · Feb 10 at 17:43:
One caveat though: Yggdrasil will work over any network *with reasonable bandwidth and latency*. That means you can't run it over the unreasonable protocol of LoRa, which is really the longest-range omnidirectional you're getting with unlicenced spectrum and power. The only mesh you're running over that is Reticulum, with all the afforementioned drawbacks.
🐙 norayr [OP] · Feb 14 at 00:19:
that's why i want to try halow.
🐦 JustASillyBird · Feb 14 at 21:29:
HaLow certainly has its place. It's a lot easier to work with than Reticulum-on-LoRa, as it can use standard networking protocols, though can't quite match it on range. With LoRa you are really limited by horizon.
The hardest part seems to be finding another enthusiast in your area to connect with.