Drew Devault forks Vim
https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/vim-classic/
An AI-free branch.
Mar 25 · 6 weeks ago · 👍 ghost
21 Comments ↓
🦆 CitySlicker · Mar 25 at 21:18:
I read the repo I’m still a little confused. If I understand it right the fork is in response to AI being used for development. Is that correct? Or is the fork in response to some sort of AI integration inside of vim?
❤️ fairlygood · Mar 25 at 22:05:
Suspected use. I do understand the sentiment, but the number of software projects that don't use LLMs in the development process is going to get smaller and smaller every day.
🚀 stack [OP/mod] · Mar 25 at 23:47:
In my personal attempts to use AI to spit out C code, the quality was poor. There were several layers of completely unnecesary subroutines and the logic was convoluted. Some of the code was badly broken and missing crucial calls.
The qualiry of code was similar to student assignmen5s at University of Mumbai, which is likely what the AI was trained on.
I saw similar slop way before AI, when I tried to fix a ridiculous kernel driver for a tpuchscreen. Someone clearly coyud not understand the structure or C, so everything was in the wrong place and repeatwd a few times. Similar layers of subroutines that do nothjng but call another subroutine. I removed maybe 95% of that junk.
Slop is slop.
Hell yeah. I'm very much in favor of this.
I think LLMs and generative AI are ruining everything and want nothing to do with them. I'm glad to see an AI-free fork.
The second I catch a whiff of AI in a project I start looking for alternatives.
First order boycott: refusing to use a thing.
Second order boycott: refusing to use a thing made using a thing.
…
The global interconnectedness of everything makes this an increasingly difficult approach.
🚀 lars_the_bear · Mar 26 at 08:15:
@jprjr : "The second I catch a whiff of AI in a project I start looking for alternatives."
So do I, but I reckon in tens years we'll be limited to using only software we wrote ourselves.
@stack to be fair the most reasonable arguments against LLMs are more about the externalities than code quality.
although ignoring everything else regarding LLMs, I doubt the tech will improve much from this point. statistics isn't really the best way to write code.
@CitySlicker I recommend reading Drew's blog post about it if you want more information:
🚀 stack [OP/mod] · Mar 26 at 14:29:
I don't have an overall anti-AI sentiment.
As an assistant it's pretty good. I can ask about parameters for a call, or what library does what, compiler flags, even some boilerplate or changes to static data ..
It's more useful than hiring a kid out of college. Some bullshitting and attitude problems but knows a lot if you ask the right question.
I wouldn't trust it with any decisions or code over a single routine.
You have to really know how to code, then it can assist. Otherwise it's the stupid leading the dumb.
Just made my first contribution to Vim Classic, feels good.
Getting a patch accepted by a project is the best kind of dopamine hit.
🚀 lars_the_bear · Mar 26 at 15:45:
@stack : "It's more useful than hiring a kid out of college. Some bullshitting and attitude problems but knows a lot if you ask the right question."
Fair enough, but the kid out of college will (we hope) eventually become somebody who can be trusted to work without close supervision. And, the kid out of college has an enormous student loan to repay. Still, I can see how you might get better short-term results from an AI agent.
🚀 stack [OP/mod] · Mar 26 at 15:56:
Comically speaking... Yes. the kid will grow up and if truly smart will leave and get a FANG job.
I suspect if you add it up the cost of drunk tanks we call college or uni, it is probably comparable to AI.
The environmental cost of the global "education system" is crazy high.
🐦 wasolili [...] · Mar 27 at 22:21:
Shame it's forked before vim9script
i think llms are already producing majority of commercial code.
all my friends who work as software developers are given paid AI assistants, be it cursor ide, github copilot or claude code.
they are expected, i guess, to have higher efficiency and close more tickets faster than before.
i have read somewhere that microsoft is using llms to rewrite lots of windows in rust.
that means, if floss devs won't use ai then floss will be less competitive than it is now. because look around you, have you tried to tell people to use xmpp or activity pub services or linux?
your friends will complain a lot. they will forget about mastodon, xmpp app, and remove linux you have installed for them, then spent days to fine tune to their needs.
it is a recurring thing to me for more that 20 years.
they will tell you “it doesn't have that feature i really need and can't live without” and they'll get back to their comfort zone.
sometimes you'll remove the linux you spent days on for them yourself. it is painful.
then there are linux phones. given what is happening with android we want them to become more useful faster.
not for us, to me sxmo or windowmaker are amazing and i need nothing more. but for others.
what i am afraid of is that floss will be less competitive for people who aren't ideological, or aren't into ideas enough.
i tried to explain the idea of free software for decades. i got better at it. but still i often can't explain people who whole life used their proprietary systems and apps why to use floss.
so if ai will also help to make our programs better, then maybe it is a tool useful for our communities?
we have lots of unsolved issues in git repos. i certainly have. last year i closed an issue i wasn't able to close for three or four years. i closed it without ai. but it took time.
another thought: i think whoever uses ai should be responsible for each line generated.
and i think they are. imagine corporate programmer. when the bug or just stupid thing in found in the code, that programmer can't say: it's not me, it's genai. that person is responsible for the code they deliver.
so i think if microsoft is rewriting windows with rust, evely line of code, hopefully, has a responsible person behind it.
someone who read, edited, agreed with the generated code.
🐦 wasolili [...] · Mar 31 at 03:53:
@norayr I suspect the claims of how much commercial code is AI generated is exaggerated to appease shareholders and upper management who have been convinced these tools are drastically more useful than they are.
🚀 stack [OP/mod] · Mar 31 at 12:54:
Because the only problem with Microsoft Windows is that it's not written in Rust.
Now with the help of AI rusty windows will destroy competition.
But seriously an AI assistant is fine. The problem is if the one being assisted is a moron.
🚀 lars_the_bear · Mar 31 at 13:40:
I suspect that converting from one programming language to another is something the an LLM could, perhaps, be trusted to do.
🚀 stack [OP/mod] · Mar 31 at 13:44:
That is just so useful! Then maybe rewrite everything in go.