Comment by 🐙 norayr
Re: "I put graphene on my Pixel. I then read about google…"
my understanding is that the problem is only relevant for certain users and authors.
users who run any open source android version without google play services, without gapps, i. e. google free lineageos, graphene etc, are unaffected.
but those who have gapps basically agreed that their device is managed by google and they are affected.
btw i don't understand why would anyone install lineage but also gapps. it's like deliberately making huge holes in a condom before using it.
on authors: so android was supposedly 'open' platform because most part of it is floss and because anyone could develop for it and distribute programs for it without having to publish via google's play store.
Mar 10 · 8 weeks ago
20 Later Comments ↓
so lets say i developed the app, i can give the apk installer to people by any means: publish on my site, send on a flash drive etc.
not much should prevent you from installing the apk.
i. e. authors were more independent from google.
now if the author wants his program to be sideloaded on any google managed android device (majority of android devices) the author needs to go to bow down to google, present id, other docs.
but, if the user's device is not google managed, i. e. it's not how it was bought in store, but with free from google open version of android, those devices can install software downloaded from any programmer who is not known to google.
🍀 gritty [OP] · Mar 10 at 03:13:
thanks @norayr
🚀 lars_the_bear · Mar 10 at 07:29:
I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Graphene et al. won't eventually follow Google's lead, and restrict sideloading. These platforms, especially Graphene, are pushing for more mainstream respectability, so they will be trusted by banks and the like. They might feel that restricting app usage is part of that respectability.
Fortunately, all these platforms are open-source, so the option remains open to rebuild without the restrictions, if you have the know-how.
👻 darkghost · Mar 10 at 09:23:
I doubt very much that Graphene OS will lock things down like Google. Their sandbox, however, might become impossible to implement.
can we still put custom ROMs on our phones?
nah, that's a bug, they'll be fixin that after they fix the sideloading
Fortunately, all these platforms are open-source, so the option remains open to rebuild without the restrictions, if you have the know-how.
nah, they cryptolock the firmware so you can't do nothin without their permission, and linux is ready to die on this hill, honorably fighting for the rights of poor OEMs to fuck you over
🚀 lars_the_bear · Mar 10 at 12:49:
@namark : The dystopian vision you describe would be terrible in many ways; but it would at least give me the incentive to get rid of my smartphone for good.
that reality version, dystopian version is when your govenment issued id is a smartphone with google malware on it, and it's required everywhere and for eveything and you are nobody without it
👻 darkghost · Mar 10 at 14:07:
That's the biggest fear. Of course, my charger broke 2 days ago. Shucks!
🗡️ The_Jackal · Mar 10 at 14:39:
@namark Maybe we'll see the BSDs gain more popularity if Linux gets fucked over.
my charger broke
no worries granpa, checkout terminal will wireless quick charge it at 10x rate
BSDs gain more popularity if Linux gets fucked over
you got it backwards, BSD has been fighting on a hill behind that one for the glory of Apple since the day it was born, and both are doing it to gain popularity. If you want to know what no-popularity is like, look at the hurd's rotting carcass, I heard it has been necroed recently, better horror story than twilight
@The_Jackal
Maybe we'll see the BSDs gain more popularity if Linux gets fucked over.
sorry but in this respect bsd is worse, because of the license.
we are able to build open source android parts and device specific kernels because phone vendors are obliged by gpl-2 to publish kernel with their modifications.
we also can take some drivers fcom those vendor modified kernels and bring to mainline.
and then we can use linux on those phones, even old ones, with the most modern kernels.
if linux was gpl-3, they would not be able to lock bootloaders. to be precise, they would have to provide full info including keys for us to unlock those.
freebsd already gave us a smartphone: fully closed iphone.
🗡️ The_Jackal · Mar 11 at 00:53:
@norayr Forgive me for my ignorance, but don't both Ios and MacOS only have chunks and pieces from FreeBSD rather than being full on BSDs themselves?
and i need to confess that i don't like the 'keepandroidopen' initiative.
first of all it is misleading people into believing this is about closing the source.
secondly, why would we beg a commercial company to do or not do something?
we should've not expected anything good from capital and we should've all instead using real linux phones, to invest to the projects by just participating.
google as any company will and should do what will bring them and shareholders more money.
and even if we begged and they agreed, do we really want that outcome? that they agreed because we've begged?
i think we don't need to have anything in common with begging and being grateful to great kind corporations that gave us wonderful (indeed, though sarcastic) android.
when i use real linux phones and i see imperfections i feel how much better is it than polished os from the big corporation.
i feel relief, i feel that not polished ui is a good sign. (:
@The_Jackal
with all respect to *bsds, the problem is the license.
apple would never be able to create such a stable operating system if they wouldn't take freebsd 7, and add to it their ui, turning it into macos x.
they were struggling trying to improve their system 7 and 8 which were very limited and didn't have real multitasking. they could not do much and did not have money to write such amount of code as they took from freebsd.
it is the license that allowed them to get for granted, literally, decades of work of lots of people, starting from berkley unix, and then close the system and sell closed down/vendor locked overpriced devices to the grandchildren of the authors of the os.
we can say that xiaomi takes 'parts' of code of linux kernel.
it throws away lots of things. jush like i do when i compile my gentoo kernels.
i don't need lots of drivers, i compile only those i need. i don't need slip support for serial communication. and so on.
if we count, perhaps, i build much less than 50% of code linux kernel has.
xiaomi or other phone vendors do the same: get mainline, turn off most of the drivers and features in the config, add their drivers, some mobile specific code, and here is their device specific vendor kernel.
but they have to publish it. because gpl.
ancient history nobody remebers, the latest big bout was llvm, clang, musl, libc++, which saved apple's, google's and nvidia's asses allowing them to keep their toolchains closed, cause gcc was at their throats slowly suffocating them
secondly, why would we beg a commercial company to do or not do something?
you're not begging google though you're begging everyone, most people including devs think that proprietary software is good, you gotta level with them
keepandroidopen kisses google's ass, but it leads you to F-Droid, and if you go to their forum you get any links you post to any proprietary software get instabonked, and gears start turning, it's a process
🚀 lars_the_bear · Mar 11 at 07:54:
When real Linux (or whatever, CP/M maybe...) smartphones become reliable enough to be treated as appliances, I'll be in line with my wallet open. That hasn't been my experience. In the meantime, I can run Lineage or Graphene on my phone, and it's perfectly reliable.
Problem is, so long as Android remains open-ish, few people have much incentive to try to create anything better.So I'm not sure how I feel about keeping Android open, to be honest.
keepandroidopen kisses google's ass, but it leads you to F-Droid
you mean it leads those who uses google android? not leads but allows them to use fdroid?
well yes, i know people who use conversations from fdroid on google android.
but using google android was the mistake in the first place.
they need to realize google humiliates them and switch to something else.
if i have a friend with conversations and google andnoid, i will tell them
you have two options
a) continue being humiliated. to help you i suggest
you to buy conversations from play store, and i'll by you coffee and help you backup existing conversations and migrate.
b) i can install lineage if your device is supported.
idk dude, lead means lead, tellzya instal froid rn, idk what people actually do or what happens tomorrow, they'll probably hate it cause eveyone love DMCA and proprietaty software
is like defectivebydesign, "yeah sure abuse me every which way you want just not that way daddy", it's just some buzz to lead you to free software, cause buzz is king in this industry
Original Post
I put graphene on my Pixel. I then read about google locking apps down. can someone tell me how this affects things like graphene and fdroid? fdroid looks like it's gonna get killed off. can we still put custom ROMs on our phones? what about apps?