Comment by 💽 Ian_Grey
On no Earth was this man 'executed.' He drew a 9mm Sig on federal agents. Most reasonably intelligent twelve-year-olds know what's going to come of that.
💽 Ian_Grey [Catholic Labor/Retired Communoid]
Jan 25 · 3 months ago
89 Later Comments ↓
👾 jecxjo [OP] · Jan 25 at 02:00:
@Ian_Grey having looks at countless videos the man had his gun holstered, and it was subsequently removed prior to multiple agents shooting him over 6 times. One agent has been shown to shoot Alex Pretti while his body lay on the ground. The victim did not draw his fire arm. Please go look at the videos, you are flat out mistaken.
@Ian_Grey turns out that when you have a weapon Federal Officers might find you hostile!
@jecxjo The vertical video taken from the sidewalk is chaotic and low-res enough that I wouldn't want to draw a lot of conclusions based solely on it. Assuming that you're entirely correct, and he didn't go for it, we're still left with the question of why he brought a gun to a protest in the first place. Did this guy somehow manage to avoid ever reading a single zine? Bringing a weapon to a protest is black bloc provocateur behavior. Anyone who has ever been seriously involved in long-term protests will tell you the same thing: leave that at home. Even if it isn't used to escalate, it can be used as a pretext to escalate. This concludes my poasting about American Politricks for the evening.
Not looking forward to this crap. As if ICE agents aren't running around shooting and scaring people enough. Smh
The _stupidity_ of what's happening is beyond belief.
I am no fan of police or Trump. But teasing and provoking people with guns is the domain of the idiot. These are not heroes, these are brainwashed morons endangering everyone.
To politicians, these are useful idiots, as they saying goes.
I am sick and tired of idiots. My life is not better for their actions, and neither is _anyone's life_, except a handful of crooked politicians who are seriously concerned about their fraud coming to light.
If we have borders and taxes, we have to build walls and keep people who don't belong out. The alternative is -- no taxes, no entitlements and no borders. I am all for that.
For some reason, the old Democrat agenda of keeping people from crossing borders -- listen to Obama or Clinton -- is now enforced by the Republicans. A president was elected -- legally, and with much interferance I should add, including attempts to jail, debank and assasinate -- on this platform. I think anything Trump does (and I am not a fan) will meet similiar idiotic protestations.
Democrats should instead of doing stupid, dangerous, and expensive things (yes, we are all paying for this bullshit theater) -- regroup and actually come up with a message that makes sense. Also, a single leader who is not a corrupt piece of crap. Or at least a corrupt piece of crap that is electable.
Haven't you guys learned anything? "I am not Trump" will not get you elected. "Protest everything Trump does" is not going to work -- but may land a bunch of morons in jail.
You are just falling for the propaganda meant to create a smoke screen for a bunch of corrupt politicians to get away with raiding the treasury.
Enough bullshit please.
Honestly, this is always from corrupts politians that could care much less about the average American nowadays, It's why I won't bother listening in on Politics too much now.
Both sides are full of ***t. Listen to Fox or CNN and you will get a bunch of pretty transparent lies.
The misdirection with 'protests' is pretty obvious given what else would come up as 'news' currently
🐦 wasolili [...] · Jan 25 at 04:56:
I'm tired of having to watch multiple angles of a new person dying every week just to keep up with the news.
I didn't expect victim blaming here. People need to read a history book and learn the perils of rolling over and being a good dog. This is America. We protest authoritarianism. We resist fascists. We do not want masked, unaccountable secret police.
Also, this guy didn't draw a gun on anyone. A few years back, that psycho kid brought an AR-15 style rifle to a protest and murdered two people. The same crowd blasting this nurse for having a permitted and holstered gun painted that dope as some kind of folk hero.
❤️ fairlygood · Jan 25 at 12:21:
I always head to the comments when something like this happens, and while I know the internet is not representative of real life, it’s difficult to conclude anything other that that you guys in the USA are completely cooked. Both sides are living in different, incompatible realities. As an outsider, it’s horrifying to watch.
👻 darkghost · Jan 25 at 12:33:
We are cooked, indeed. America as you knew her is dead. I'm close to getting a position outside the country and I don't have many reasons not to take it and never look back.
The only solution I can really say is to protect yourselves, and make sure you have weapons and sheilds. I hate the insane, messy state of the US so much sometimes.
It's dire but this guy's supporters are in the miniority (despite the impression you may get online). There will be dancing in the streets when he's gone. I guarantee it. Until then, I'm hoping to never read, "What did <insert murderered person't name> think was going to happen when they posted negative comments about Trump?"
the division is music to the ears of the US' enemies
@gritty That probably explains why the overseas troll farms have taken an interest.
yup, probably pulling overtime
the existential threat to the US is itself, with its adversaries throwing logs on the fire.
I find it extremely amusing that these idiots who tease and assault other idiots with guns are considered 'victims'.
There is also the fact that these 'victims' are brainwashed, funded, organized and armed by the likes of the BLM leaders who ironically often get federal non-profit funding and keep most of the donations to fund their own little real estate ventures.
If they are victims, they are victimized by Democrats or some insane branch thereof.
I am certainly not a republican, but it is pretty obvious who is at fault here. Is it aholes enforcing the law of the land, or is it aholes throwing bricks at them and occasionally (probably not often enough) getting shot and screaming 'you are a fascist'?
I am also really tired of the fascist/concentration camp bullshit. I lost a good chunk of my family to a real concentration camp, and let me tell you, there are orders of magnitude difference between those and what's happening.
What is really happening is that a bunch of people illegally crossed the border, a serious crime in most countries. Most are on welfare or public assistance of some kind, paid for by my taxes. Some commit crimes. These are targeted by ICE for immediate deportation. They have rights? Yes, the right to be kicked out. There is absolutely no credible evidence that anything else is going on.
There is a difference between harboring criminals and keeping Jews from being killed by Hitler.
Listening to this bullshit makes my ears wilt. You are just protecting politicians who are outright stealing. On both sides.
👻 darkghost · Jan 25 at 18:50:
While some certainly have, entire classes of people went from legal to illegal at the stroke of a pen via executive order and all the changes in asylum policy. And rather than work for reform and preventing this situation from happening again, the administration has chosen spectacle over substance. The US government has used it's official channels to release a doctored photo of a criminal defendant, Nekima Armstrong. We should not take a word they say in good faith. But it sure is good spectacle. And it's goddamn tragic that anybody has to die for it, regardless of the circumstances. The system leading up to the immigration situation has not been fixed and this could happen again in a generation.
👾 jecxjo [OP] · Jan 25 at 19:18:
I find it telling when people want to toss out the 2nd Amendment when it fits their narrative. There are many videos now, with many angles and they all show the same thing. Alex did NOT pull his gun. So saying "why bring a gun to a protest" means that purely by owning a gun he gave up his right to live. Not pulling the gun on officers, not aiming it other people. Just having a legal gun on his person gives them reason to shoot him. This would also then mean if we see anyone carrying in any other public setting we can claim that we feel a threat of life & shoot them. Your arguments are not only junk but show you're just out to support an administration than actually care about laws
I am not supporting any administration.
Anyone who brings a gun to a 'peaceful' protest is a jackass who truly deserves to be shot. I do not say it lightly.
Nice that all the anti-gun people are now framing that jerk as a hero, or at least a victim. Maybe both.
It is a tragedy that people have to die so that the 'leaders' can improve their political standing. But that's not news.
Carrying a firearm in the manner that Pretti did is both a Constitutional right and legally allowed by Minnesota law as I understand it. Saying that someone deserves to be shot for exercising a Constitutional right, whether or not he was at a protest, goes beyond the pale for me. Nobody deserves to be shot until they are an imminent threat to someone else.
What happened looked a lot like a mistake on the part of the LEOs that resulted in Pretti's death. Was it exacerbated by the presence of a firearm? It probably was, but people have also been shot who were not carrying firearms (see Renee Goode), and it certainly doesn't mean that Pretti "deserved" that fate.
If we weren't in the midst of cultural-tribal warfare I think a rational person would say that having two of these incidents in as many weeks warrants revising the approach that ICE is taking. ICE is clearly antagonizing people to the point that those people are willing to put themselves in deadly situations. That is not normal and we *do not* want to get into a situation where we consider it normal.
The most important end-goal of having a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" is that people can live in the way they see fit. Even if you think the Fed's goals are noble (which, perhaps surprisingly, I do), the agents who do not live in Minneapolis are using an approach that is pissing off a ton of people who do live there. That is directly at odds with that most fundamental goal of our governmental system as far as I can see it.
❤️ fairlygood · Jan 25 at 20:48:
There is an objective truth somewhere here. Find it and agree on it, and you might stand a chance.
@stack - while I respect your right to have them, and to voice them, I find your viewpoints baffling, and a little bit shocking. I cannot understand how anyone can feel that this was a deserved outcome having watched the footage.
Avoidable loss of life is always a tragedy, but you don't need to see any footage.
The fact that this person brought a deadly weapon to a supposedly peaceful protest says it all.
A gun's only purpose is to kill or inflict terrible permanent damage. With a car maybe there us room for discussion. When a man goes to fight federal police with a gun and gets shot, that is par for the course.
These people are victims, of brainwashing and very poor judgment.
@ingrix, I get your point, and I am not anti-gun generally.
Free speech is a right, but not screaming "Fire" in a crowded theater. Bringing a gun to confront law enforcement in chaotic conditions, whether you aim it or not, is enough to be a suicide by cop.
And I am not a federalist, and do not align myself with this administration which is doing awful things, although enforcing the traditionally Democrat agenda of immigration control is the least of its sins.
Could it be done more tactfully? Yes.
Should Minnesota get special treatment and be exempt because the governor is riling people against the Feds to cover his ass? Ridiculous.
If you have countries, borders, taxes and entitlements, this is what happens.
This is America. People carry guns to the grocery store. I know someone with conceal carry who seldom leaves the house without one. This poor guy was trying to help someone. He was pepper sprayed in the face, knocked to the ground, pistol whipped, disarmed and then shot a ridiculous number of times.
We'll see what happens but the fact there was no investigation when the first person was killed, tells you everything you need to know. There is always an investigation in an officer involved shooting even when obviously justified. Anything else stinks of a coverup.
I'm not sure where someone was comparing this to sheltering Jews. Maybe you saw a press conference with Greg Bovino and his SS cosplay outfit?
Anyway, all of this is an intentional ratcheting up with the goal of disrupting the 2026 elections. You guys know this, right? This depraved dude always telegraphs everything he's planning.
+1 for all this being a distraction and sabotage. Politicians on both sides love it and benefit greatly.
Encouraging dumb people to fight to the death to accomplish this is pure evil.
Again, this guy chose to load and holster a weapon and bring it to a place where people 'help someone' by shoving cops and throwing bricks provided by the night shift. Innocent victim? Who is brainwashed, raise your hand.
He didn't throw bricks. Where do you get this stuff? Once you start making things up, everything else is suspect.
My mistake. He only brought a gun to a peaceful demonstration, to help.
👻 darkghost · Jan 25 at 22:05:
ICE agents outnumber city police nearly 3:1. There is no excuse to have that level of federal presence for the narrow scope of immigration enforcement. They can, and have, been successful with operations with 100X fewer agents.
During Obama years, over 5 million people were deported, and I'll bet you never even heard of ICE if you are a regular person.
If it were not for the 'resistance', no one would be dead today. It's insane to think anything else. What has it or will it accomplish? If you don't like the law, challenge and change it through proper channels. Sending people to their death makes politicians look committed to the cause, but they are the ones who should be committed and kept away from murdering people.
Obama didn't hire incompetent goons or deny due process or disappear innocent people into torture prisons. Are you good with the ICE memo stating they have a right to enter your home without a warrant? It's night and day. BTW, I'm still waiting for my check from the No Kings protest. I had a multi-tool with a small blade in my pocket. It's a wonder I got out of there alive. AOC still hasn't gotten back to me.
@bluesman, if you feel that strongly, get your gun and go to a protest. See what happens. Common sense -- not politics. If I were a fellow protester and saw you with a gun, I would personally try convince you to leave using any means possible. Nothing good can come of it. I suppose you think otherwise, that something good will come of it, maybe if enough people die. That is not how I want my country to function. Or maybe I should just think of this as a weird form of natural selection.
Obama hired the same kind of goons and built a bunch of these 'torture' prisons, including a billion dollar Guantanamo renovation with swimming pools for the goons -- after getting a Nobel Peace Prize for saying he will shut it down. Were you protesting then?
The ICE memo clearly states that agents require a warrant to enter a home or apprehend a person. There is a legal argument over what constitutes a court that can issue such warrants. Don't repeat propaganda as if it were a fact.
Administrative courts and magistrate judges exist in a variety of legal settings. One just precluded the arrest of Don Lemon for storming a church during religious services, a clear felony violation of FACE and KKK acts.
And no, I am not happy about the State expanding its powers, especially due to BLM and other a-holes unnecessarily escalating violence.
👻 darkghost · Jan 25 at 23:10:
I just did a bit of reading here. Interestingly, the fourth amendment shielded both the citizenry from government overreach and the government from trespass tort. Case law and precedent have since negated the ability of the citizen to seek redress from the government for damages they cause violating the fourth amendment, meaning it is de facto toothless. Meaningless words on paper. The case law is unsettled as to whether judicial oversight or administrative warrants are good enough to satisfy the fourth, though more recent precedent has favored judicial review. Given the wheels of justice grind very slowly, the goal is the same as silicon valley. Move fast and break things.
@stack The VA nurse's gun was in a holster behind his back. No one saw it until the ICE agents were pistol whipping him for filming them with an iPhone (or trying to help a woman - it's hard to keep track of the accusations). No fellow protesters saw the gun. It's called "concealed" carry.
Obama did not send innocent people to third party countries to be tortured without due process. Trump did exactly that by taking advantage of the services offered by his pal and idol Nayib Bukele (the guy that calls himself the "world's coolest dictator"). The reason Obama didn't shut down Guantanamo was congressional resistance. You don't remember Republicans wetting themselves over the prospect of terrorists in mainland prisons (as if they were super villains from a Marvel movie)? As far as the Nobel Peace prize, Trump is definitely obsessed as are his minions.
The ICE memo obtained by the AP authorizes officers to enter homes without judicial warrants. This is a fact and not propaganda. Administrative warrants from a corrupt organization like this incarnation of ICE are meaningless when it comes to an honest application of due process and The Constitution.
I don't know about Don Lemon. It sounds like something I might see on Fox News. A cursory read sounds to me like another failed attempt by Trump's DOJ to land a vindictive prosectution. How many is that now? That said, I don't have an opinion on Don Lemon. What did he do when he "invaded" the church? Brandish an iPhone?
...Obama did not send innocent people to third party countries to be tortured without due process.... That is exactly what Guantanamo was for.
I suggest you do your own research about Don Lemon and the constitutional laws he violated with his BLM pals. I am not a fan or a credible source of information on this subject.
We as a citizens don't get to decide which courts are convenient to us.
I commend the ICE officers for noticing that he was packing. No one else without a gun got shot -- and that should tell you something. The only other shooting involved a car actually hitting the ICE officer. I do not like these guys but fair is fair. They are doing a job that American people elected a president to to do, and he charged them with it. Don't like it? Change the laws.
I'm still going to vote during this year's election, screw these ICE agents and screw the president for using them to scare people
@stack Really? I'd love to see the list of people sent to Guantanamo that aren't considered enemy combatants. Even those people have some legal recourse. I think Guantanomo should be closed but suggesting it's equivalent to sending people including legal residents to a third-world torture prison is absurd. If you're going to deport someone, they need to be sent to their home countries and not notorious gulags.
The Fourth Amendment requires a judicial warrant. That's in The Constitution. Check it out.
Also, the car never hit anyone. The dumb story about internal bleeding fell apart on scrutiny. They didn't even investigate. The creep called her a "fucking bitch" after he fired the fatal shot from the side. As for the latest murder, the guy WAS DISARMED BEFORE HE WAS SHOT NINE TIMES. You're welcome to respect these grotesque monsters but you can't just things that aren't true (at least not to me).
Is there a list of american citizens deported by ICE that you can produce?
I find it curious that the only people shot by ICE are the woman who worked hard on enraging a man with a gun and drove an SUV, let's say in his general direction... and a man with a concealed firearm, who did not even use it.
I would say that ICE is showing an amazing amount of restraint.
Walz is actively trying to kill people. He might as well be telling people to stoo a moving train by standing on the tracks and mouthing off.
👻 darkghost · Jan 26 at 06:02:
I've seen the video in question. He had been disarmed when he was shot. Concealed carry in public is legal with the proper permitting. I wouldn't do it but I can't tell you the number of times I've been about to enter a place like a hospital and forgotten I'm carrying a knife on my belt. I got my old one confiscated entering a baseball game when I forgot one time.
The temperature really needs to be turned down. ICE seems to be pretty unprofessional and untrained when it comes to conflict deescalation. The federal government has a massive credibility problem by refusing to investigate these tragic events, removing and destroying evidence, and refusing state and local government participation in investigation.
I don't think you truly believe that the dude just forgot that he us packing a gun to the protest.
Like I said, to me it looks like ICE is doing surprusingly well given the chaos.
Since local law enforcement refused to keep the crowds safe, it seems reasonable that the feds don't want to deal wirh them.
But I grow tired of sounding like I am defending ICE. However, there is just zero excuse for the other side.
I was editing my comment when you posted. I meant legal residents. American citizens haven't been sent to the gulags despite Trump saying he'd love to do just that. However, ProPublica reports at least 70 citizens have been detained by ICE - some for days. I've read horrific stories of humiliation suffered by citizens at the hands of ICE. Legal residents and people with pending cases have been sent to torture gulags. Abrego Garcia was one but there are others.
Walz isn't trying to kill anyone. That's ridiculous. I know you like to prefix a lot of your posts with "I don't like Trump but...<praise for some Trump policy>". Between that and the talking points you throw around, I have to conclude you're getting your "news" from suspect sources. If I read these kind of comments on any other platform, I'd think you were MAGA. I've seen Trump supporters rage about all these same topics in the last few days.
Hmm. If you are in charge of millions of people, your goal should be de-escalation, compliance with the law of the land, and keeping people away from areas where a bunch of heavily armed people are doing thing you may not like.
Walz is actually happy about how things are going, and is proud of people of his state 'fighting fascism'. Take it any way you want.
Every year more something like 7 million US citizens are arrested by various branches of law enforcement. That is more than the entire population of Minnesota. 70 is not even a rounding error. It's just noise. The other 7 million and the prison-industrial complex is a real problem which may be worthy of resistance. In Minneapolis, it is an orchestrated sideshow.
I would consider myself perhaps MAO, Make America OK, as I don't think America was ever that great. And I don't think 'greatness' is ever a good goal. And it is certainly in the worst shape I've seen it.
Sources: https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/resources/reports/Reported%20Crimes%20in%20the%20Nation%20Quick%20Stats.pdf, FBI web site
I'm not sure where someone was comparing this to sheltering Jews. Maybe you saw a press conference with Greg Bovino and his SS cosplay outfit?
— https://nypost.com/2026/01/25/us-news/tim-walz-compares-trumps-ice-crackdown-to-nazi-occupation/
or if you don't believe the Post,
— https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/minnesota-governor-likens-states-immigration-021538215.html
👻 darkghost · Jan 26 at 12:03:
My argument is that federal government is inciting chaos deliberately. There were always going to be some protests. By having almost 3:1 agents to city police their presence is unavoidable and very visible. This is well in excess of what's needed to enforce the narrow scope of laws they enforce, but protests will get bigger by doing so. ICE isn't trained in crowd control so they bumble their way through these interactions, sometimes with deadly consequences. The feds give them carte blanche to do whatever it takes to complete the mission and cover for them by shutting out local law enforcement, hiding and destroying evidence, and doctoring photos of defendants arrested to make them seem more unhinged.
I respect this is nothing like the horrors of the past. But it isn't hard to see the trajectory that leads to something that resembles it. I would argue that things are getting worse with each passing day. I personally no longer recognize the nation I grew up in, which is one reason why I'm looking to leave. Americans aren't used to seeing this kind of thing and most don't have the family experience from which to weigh the events they're seeing.
As far as your sheltering Jews comment, I was asking who brought it up in this thread. I guess the answer is you. I looked at your Ground News link and it's interesting that most of the articles are classified as right-leaning. Anyway, I have no problems with drawing parallels to history as I also support the 1st amendement. There is that old saw about history repeating and if the head of Border Patrol dresses like he's in the SS, I think it's okay to point that out.
By the way, I thought about these parallels when they cooked up the name "Homeland Security" back in the Dubya days. The slippery slope is gentle.
The Ground News article is specifically marked CENTER.
I get that you would say that the Post is right leaning, but NBC?
Do you dusagree with a pretty obvious fact that Walz compared current situation to the Anne Frank story?
I don't want to argue for argument's sake, and I don't want to win arguments with you. Feels like you will defend the dogma and no amount of horrible or criminal behaviour by Democrat leaders will change that.
@Fairlygoodthanks If it makes you feel better, identification with either side is at all time lows, with independents winning the plurality by far. As an American, I share your bafflement at the online words of both loud minorities, but I wouldn't read too much into it.
The objective truth seems to be a bad shoot, though not necessarily an illegal one. That said, gun owners regard putting yourself in situations like this while armed as unwise, but I've also known them to forget they're armed and attempt walking into restricted spaces. Such tragedies are usually the result of cascading failures.
Forty thousand NGOs handle $120 billion per year in Minnesota. Cui bono? Nothing about these protests is organic, and anyone comparing ICE to Nazis simply isn't being serious.
It's not about what his constitutional right is or isn't. You have Charlie Kirk who wasn't carrying jack diddly shot in broad daylight and killed . Then, you have these bozos running around with agent grade guns at an event designed to protest enforcing the borders and laws of the country because they want illegal aliens here.
With all due respect, the idea that this man 'forgot' that he had a gun and two extra clips of ammo when getting ready for a confrontation with federal police is beyond ludicrous.
Bringing a loaded gun to a chaotic confrontation provides ICE personnel with a complete reason to believe that their lives and the lives of others are in danger, and the shooting is completely justified under existing federal and state laws. That is not my opinion and I am not defending ICE.
The escalation and rioting that is being carefully orchestrated is obviously a misdirection. Our attention is being diverted -- from what?
👻 darkghost · Jan 26 at 22:20:
@stack The fact that nobody is investing in Venezuela.
@stack When I click on your specific link, there is a section on the right side of the page labeled "coverage details". I only pointed it out because in my social media experience, the people most obsessed with Nazi comparisons are the same people defending the tiki torch crowd, the pardoned J6 cop beaters and the Minneapolis murderers. It's just an observation. Probably just a coincidence. It is a bit weird though to hear the same people joyously proclaimling these two poor souls had it coming go into a frenzy about Nazi comparisons. Lady doth protest? No idea.
I don't disagree that Walz mentioned Anne Frank. Never said I did. Don't care. I have the ability to make my own judgements. The real problem is a lot of people wouldn't get more accurate comparisons to lesser known fascist thugs so the Nazis are the go-to whenever an authoritarian dipshit like Trump shows up. I can handle hyperbolic comparisons. I can't get behind ridiculous assertions. You know, like all this is paid for and ginned up by Democratic leaders. That's just dumb. No one is leaving bricks or paying protesters. No one pulled a gun. No one drove into an ICE agent.
My question is who will be next after all the "illegals" are deported. The miserable people cheering on these events will still miserable. There lives won't be any better (probably worse, in fact). I suppose they'll be frothing about the next thing. Mail-in ballots, trans athletes, EVs. Maybe some other group will draw their ire. No, that's not a Nazi comparison...necessarily. I actually have a neighbor who thinks the family should discuss the best candidate and then only the man should go vote. I'm not kidding. It would be ridiculous if I wasn't made aware that the idea is actually making the rounds with the usual suspects. Maybe I'll be arguing about it someday on BBS.
@stack It's not ludicrous at all. Mothers forget their babies. People with CCW forget they are holding, all the time. It would explain his resistance. So would him just being a reckless idiot. Qualified immunity being the way it is, I'd agree they're probably legally justified even if they too are idiots who confused a cellphone for a gun or just started blasting after the first guy who made a bad call did. No matter how any of the above shakes out, it's still the result of ridiculously high aggression on the part of the officers. To an extent that's their prerogative, just as he was freely exercising his rights, but in terms of moral fault I favor the latter and think the aggression warrants firing.
I'm not sure where someone was comparing this to sheltering Jews. Maybe you saw a press conference with Greg Bovino and his SS cosplay outfit?
@bluesman, you asked, I answered...
You wanted sources. I provided. You tried to undermine them. And now:
I don't disagree that Walz mentioned Anne Frank. Never said I did. Don't care.
This is the typical brainwashed slop I expect to hear.
If you want a civilized discussion I am game. And I am open to have you change my mind. I hope you are as well. Otherwise why are we doing this?
But you can't just parrot the mainstream media. That is, you can, but you are not scoring any points. I think you can do better.
You are correct that after this bullshit no one will be happier, and a bunch of people will be dead. It is up to those who can stop it to do so. Anything else is irresponsible.
@Aeolus, that is nuts. Can you imagine yourself forgetting that you have a concealed weapon and two extra clips and going to a riot?
Where you are going to tease and get into the Feds faces, shove and be shoved in a crowd?
That alone is a pretty good reason to shoot this 'nurse'
Yes and it's one reason I don't. All I can tell you is that I know it happens, because I know people who have very nearly walked into courthouses, or definitely did walk onto campuses, etc. I don't know the circumstances of his entry into the situation, or what was going on in his mind.
FWIW, my pick for what your attention is being diverted from is the way tens of thousands of people were very openly and unambiguously massacred by their own government in the past couple weeks and how my government, America, has been moving military assets into the region.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 00:25:
ICE has announced shrinking their operation in Minneapolis.
Just so everyone is clear, if you are carrying a gun, you are armed. Whether you are dangerous and posing a threat with it is another matter. The guy was armed. He was also aggressive enough to warrant further attention. He, likewise, showed up to where officers were doing officer things, WITH a gun in a crowd of people who have intent to mess around with law enforcement. Any one of these things is stupid, but all of them together mean you might become a drilled clown. Other stupid things you can do are to take a pistol to an army base full of army guys with guns and try to screw with their army stuff.
Aeolus, I suppose I would not trust myself either...
I sincerely hope things will somehow calm down, here and elsewhere.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 01:39:
Once the agents got the firearm, he was unarmed. He was shot while unarmed. Twitchy agents unable to take the heat shot an unarmed US citizen a dozen times. Once was probably plenty. Cops always get crap when this happens. I can't say if I'd have been cool in that position, but I'm not trained, entrusted, or paid to be. I'm just a schmuck who plays with test tubes all day.
Yeah. Imagine going to work to a terrible job because you are a bonehead and don't know what a test tube looks like. There are people threatening your family because someone doxed you. They fly you to a place where BLM vandalizes your hotel and you don't get to sleep much. People follow you around spitting in your face. There is a crowd pushing that wants to see you dead.
Someone yells 'gun' and your partners shove a man to the ground. You can't see his hands and you shoot. This happens very fast.
I'm not saying this is how it happened or approving it but this is just how things are.
Cops don't take chances because it's a job and they want to come home alive. It's not about politics for them but survival.
Threatening law enforcement is just a terrible idea. If they consider a threat credible they are authorized to kill you. And if it's not credible, you are a fool.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 02:08:
I mean, I have have had my family threatened and been doxed. It does put you on edge. But I don't get to hide behind a mask, a badge, a gun, or qualified immunity.
Yeah, far from ideal.
Or you disarm one very specific kind of gun agents use, which makes you think this guy is one of us, and probably has another gun or weapon on him. It's not like he brought a Saturday Night Special in to this party.
Yes, when you bring a gun and extra ammo to a riot there us a good chance you have another one.
I don't think ICE agents should carry guns. They're not enforcing any laws directly related to violence.
If they're carrying out an operation where violence is an element they should partner with the appropriate agency. Like the DEA, FBI, whatever agency has the correct expertise for the particular situation.
I think the fact that they're carrying speaks to their true mission, which isn't about enforcing laws - it's about intimidation.
@stack @bluesman - I unpublished a couple of your comments since they were veering off-topic and into personal insults territory. Feel free to rephrase your points in a way that is more in line with the Code of Conduct.
For the record, since this was brought up by @bluesman, @clseibold has been warned of his abrasive behavior on BBS on multiple occasions, over the past year or two, when interacting with a number of users. Alas, he declined to respect the rules.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 10:58:
@jprjr It's obvious to me ICE is not trained for nor should it be responsible for crowd control. A judge agrees and has limited ICE's ability. So why are they responsible in the first place? These events are stress tests for leadership all around. Is the state refusing to provide crowd control or is ICE refusing to coordinate with the state? Given the language and behavior out of the federal government, I'm willing to bet they refuse to coordinate with state and local law enforcement. And again, the disproportionate size reveals the end game: it is about stoking fear in the community.
As it was announced that ICE is pulling back some of its agents, Representative James Comer (not from Minnesota) might have revealed the strategy behind why ICE is stoking fear. He says that he hopes the people of Minnesota "rebel against their leadership" meaning state and local politicians.
Exactly. I think ICE should be an agency that flies under the radar. They shouldn't be out patrolling streets. They should be more like detectives - gather evidence and build a case. Get a warrant. Go make targeted, specific arrests. That's what would make the most sense given their supposed mission.
Imagine if an agency like the SEC patrolled Manhattan streets with guns. That would be ridiculous because they're not dealing with crimes that put anybody in immediate, life-threatening danger.
That's how I feel about ICE
Technically, they claim that they are in fact focusing on violent criminals.
Organized harrassment explains exactly why they are wearing masks and are armed to the teeth.
I do wish things were different, but what happened is like a greek tragedy, completely predictable, and I believe, entirely planned and acceptable to politicians.
They will have 'important talks' and 'save the world' again, soon.
Viewing this matter dispassionately ...
The videos I have seen show one individual turning and moving into the street away from the melee followed by another individual (located near the sidewalk) drawing and discharging his weapon.
The actions and timeline depicted tell me that:
1. Mr Pretti's pistol was removed from its holster and removed from the melee by the first individual.
2. When the pistol was removed it was seen by the second individual who perceived it to be a threat and then drew and used his own weapon.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 17:23:
@stack They may claim it. ICE is currently holding twice as many people who have no criminal record vs people who do, according to ICE's own data. ICE has held more people without a criminal record since September. If there is focus on violent criminals, it doesn't bear it in their own data.
Immigration shouldn't be treated as a dangerous crime.
If you want to go after dangerous criminals we have plenty of existing agencies that can handle dealing with dangerous criminals.
Let the US Marshals get people in custody then let ICE handle the deportation process.
They shouldn't be police-like agents, they should be white-collar bureaucrats. An ICE agent should be a guy that shows up with court orders, not guns.
Absolutely ridiculous that we're treating immigration issues like it's some kind of dangerous thing. We're ultimately talking about people who didn't do some paperwork. That's it. That's the crime.
Democratic operatives have been flooding the country with illegal immigrants to try to control the country and policy. This is an army. It is not simply just "immigrants".
That's crazy.
Well, they are saying that the focus is actual criminals. The reality is that these are hard to catch, so many abuelas get grabbed.
I don't think overstayed visas are the problem. Most 'illegals' had walked across the border, some after crossing many countries.
Most of them could never get a tourist visa.
You have to prove to th US that you have financial security, no criminal record, and have something/someone to come back to.
You pretty much have to have a job, own real estate and have family behind.
Having a large number of undocumented people presents a problem for the bureaucrats, as they have no idea who is a criminal and who would make a perfect citizen.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 21:54:
That's a problem with what the administration is telling the public then. They should stop saying they're going after actual criminals and be truthful. I also want a pony while I'm wishing.
To date judges have ruled over 2,000 people have been detained illegally. And it has recently come to my attention that dozens of court orders have been ignored by ICE in recent weeks. I was keyed in by a judge summoning ICE director Todd Lyons to testify under overt threat of contempt of court if he fails to appear. Judge Schlitz wrote “the extent of ICE’s violation of court orders is likewise extraordinary, and lesser measures have been tried and failed. ... The Court’s patience is at an end"
This agency is beginning to look more and more lawless.
According to Factually, about half the detainees either have criminal convictions or are in the process of being convicted. Center for Immigration Studies has a multi-year study showing 36.2% convicted, 12.8% with pending charges and ~51% 'other immigration violator'.
Violent offences show <10%, with many convictions being for minor offences and possibly traffic violations.
Other sources are quoted there.
50% may sound bad, but in reality there is a high probability that the convicted offender has family that gets kicked out also.
I would be curious to see how many indpendent people with no convictions get rounded up. I suspect not too many.
But in the end, according to current laws, they should not be here anyway.
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 00:49:
I hit refresh on the factually link, because it said it was potentially out of date.
"Syracuse University’s TRAC and other compilers reported about 72 percent with no conviction as of September 21, 2025" other sources figure about this number as well. It does a good job explaining that "no conviction" doesn't mean "no threat."
Given the shift in policy a multi-year study is best for examining how policy was working before.
Yes, there are a few places where no-conviction is defined as 'with possible conviction pending'.
Sorry about the link, copied before clicking through to updated data.
I watched all the videos I could find, and now think that the first fed committed assault and should probably go up for felony murder. The other feds who fired appear to act within the law.
Having said that, bringing a gun to wrestle cops increases your probability of death significantly.
I question this man's judgment and sanity. He was was not in the crowd of protestors, but started directing traffic and definitely stepped in and got into the cop's face. It really feels like he felt empowered by having a loaded weapon...
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 12:15:
It's a tough watch. I try to unravel the events to determine the cause and effect.
I have a few questions I'd like you to reflect on. No need to repond with answers.
Do you think ICE got who they were after? Do you think that person had a criminal record? Is the ICE presence proportional and necessary?
@argyle yeah! and they also eat dogs! or cats....whatever
ICE absolutely should not be there. Also, borders, taxes, and entitlements.
But I don't want to get too off-topic.
The cause here, returning to the OP is that an irresponsible child brought a gun and extra ammo to a riot (no, he did not forget that he had it), walked around like a cockrel, got in the face of a fed doing his job (poorly) under a presidential order, and got himself shot. He made many bad choices that led to his unfortunate death. His family may get a few bucks because the one fed was out of line, but the others who shot him will probably keep qualified immunity.
Minnesota laws recognize a strict duty to retreat, so if he had tried to use his weapon it would be highly illegal -- he had many opportunities to _not_ go to the riot. In that state, if you have a chance to walk away but wind up using a firearm you go to jail. So please stop saying that he had a 'right' or pretending to support the Second Amendment.
Taking responsibility for one's actions is not something I see much of. Having a government to blame is a sign of not growing up. You can say ICE is responsible for this, or Trump. You can say it's the Democrat's fault for not providing an electable candidate. Maybe it's the founding fathers' fault for not making a better Constitution.
Or just don't bring a gun to a riot.
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 19:49:
I just learned he was suffering from a broken rib sustained from a recent encounter with ICE on another day. Whistling and shouting were what provoked ICE that time, according to people who knew about it. He sustained the injury when he was tackled and the agent leaned hard on his back. We don't have a video to judge that encounter and ICE kept no record of it. No word on if he had a firearm that time. But it is a reasonable assessment to say he repeatedly put himself in these situations. Now what provoked the events that lead to his death? We do have that video. It was a disproportionate response from an undisciplined agent. There's a lot of that from the top down, agency wide.
The second amendment argument is important. When the officials started down the same gaslighting path it riled traditional right wing organizations like the NRA. Suddenly, this event is getting an investigation, contrasted with the outright malfeasance after Renee Good was killed.
@crynick What I'm saying isn't political opinion. The left is using immigrants like it used African Americans after the Civil War. Ice is after the violent ones specifically, but really it is about having borders and a country. Othewise, the goal is to flood the US population out with foreign people who depend on the handouts the Democrats supply so they can get the votes and policies they want in place.
This thread is getting too long for meaningful discussion. Please make new posts about specific topics.
Original Post
Execution by ICE — Today a man was executed by ICE agents near Minneapolis, Minnesota. Videos have been circulated created by the diligent community members who have been tracking and recording everything ICE does. The national news outlets and social media platforms have been trying to remove these videos as they have shown just how corrupt this government has become. People need to be aware of this and start talking. For the past two months we have been working as a community to setup...