Comment by 🚀 stack
The Ground News article is specifically marked CENTER.
I get that you would say that the Post is right leaning, but NBC?
Do you dusagree with a pretty obvious fact that Walz compared current situation to the Anne Frank story?
I don't want to argue for argument's sake, and I don't want to win arguments with you. Feels like you will defend the dogma and no amount of horrible or criminal behaviour by Democrat leaders will change that.
Jan 26 · 3 months ago
42 Later Comments ↓
@Fairlygoodthanks If it makes you feel better, identification with either side is at all time lows, with independents winning the plurality by far. As an American, I share your bafflement at the online words of both loud minorities, but I wouldn't read too much into it.
The objective truth seems to be a bad shoot, though not necessarily an illegal one. That said, gun owners regard putting yourself in situations like this while armed as unwise, but I've also known them to forget they're armed and attempt walking into restricted spaces. Such tragedies are usually the result of cascading failures.
Forty thousand NGOs handle $120 billion per year in Minnesota. Cui bono? Nothing about these protests is organic, and anyone comparing ICE to Nazis simply isn't being serious.
It's not about what his constitutional right is or isn't. You have Charlie Kirk who wasn't carrying jack diddly shot in broad daylight and killed . Then, you have these bozos running around with agent grade guns at an event designed to protest enforcing the borders and laws of the country because they want illegal aliens here.
With all due respect, the idea that this man 'forgot' that he had a gun and two extra clips of ammo when getting ready for a confrontation with federal police is beyond ludicrous.
Bringing a loaded gun to a chaotic confrontation provides ICE personnel with a complete reason to believe that their lives and the lives of others are in danger, and the shooting is completely justified under existing federal and state laws. That is not my opinion and I am not defending ICE.
The escalation and rioting that is being carefully orchestrated is obviously a misdirection. Our attention is being diverted -- from what?
👻 darkghost · Jan 26 at 22:20:
@stack The fact that nobody is investing in Venezuela.
@stack When I click on your specific link, there is a section on the right side of the page labeled "coverage details". I only pointed it out because in my social media experience, the people most obsessed with Nazi comparisons are the same people defending the tiki torch crowd, the pardoned J6 cop beaters and the Minneapolis murderers. It's just an observation. Probably just a coincidence. It is a bit weird though to hear the same people joyously proclaimling these two poor souls had it coming go into a frenzy about Nazi comparisons. Lady doth protest? No idea.
I don't disagree that Walz mentioned Anne Frank. Never said I did. Don't care. I have the ability to make my own judgements. The real problem is a lot of people wouldn't get more accurate comparisons to lesser known fascist thugs so the Nazis are the go-to whenever an authoritarian dipshit like Trump shows up. I can handle hyperbolic comparisons. I can't get behind ridiculous assertions. You know, like all this is paid for and ginned up by Democratic leaders. That's just dumb. No one is leaving bricks or paying protesters. No one pulled a gun. No one drove into an ICE agent.
My question is who will be next after all the "illegals" are deported. The miserable people cheering on these events will still miserable. There lives won't be any better (probably worse, in fact). I suppose they'll be frothing about the next thing. Mail-in ballots, trans athletes, EVs. Maybe some other group will draw their ire. No, that's not a Nazi comparison...necessarily. I actually have a neighbor who thinks the family should discuss the best candidate and then only the man should go vote. I'm not kidding. It would be ridiculous if I wasn't made aware that the idea is actually making the rounds with the usual suspects. Maybe I'll be arguing about it someday on BBS.
@stack It's not ludicrous at all. Mothers forget their babies. People with CCW forget they are holding, all the time. It would explain his resistance. So would him just being a reckless idiot. Qualified immunity being the way it is, I'd agree they're probably legally justified even if they too are idiots who confused a cellphone for a gun or just started blasting after the first guy who made a bad call did. No matter how any of the above shakes out, it's still the result of ridiculously high aggression on the part of the officers. To an extent that's their prerogative, just as he was freely exercising his rights, but in terms of moral fault I favor the latter and think the aggression warrants firing.
I'm not sure where someone was comparing this to sheltering Jews. Maybe you saw a press conference with Greg Bovino and his SS cosplay outfit?
@bluesman, you asked, I answered...
You wanted sources. I provided. You tried to undermine them. And now:
I don't disagree that Walz mentioned Anne Frank. Never said I did. Don't care.
This is the typical brainwashed slop I expect to hear.
If you want a civilized discussion I am game. And I am open to have you change my mind. I hope you are as well. Otherwise why are we doing this?
But you can't just parrot the mainstream media. That is, you can, but you are not scoring any points. I think you can do better.
You are correct that after this bullshit no one will be happier, and a bunch of people will be dead. It is up to those who can stop it to do so. Anything else is irresponsible.
@Aeolus, that is nuts. Can you imagine yourself forgetting that you have a concealed weapon and two extra clips and going to a riot?
Where you are going to tease and get into the Feds faces, shove and be shoved in a crowd?
That alone is a pretty good reason to shoot this 'nurse'
Yes and it's one reason I don't. All I can tell you is that I know it happens, because I know people who have very nearly walked into courthouses, or definitely did walk onto campuses, etc. I don't know the circumstances of his entry into the situation, or what was going on in his mind.
FWIW, my pick for what your attention is being diverted from is the way tens of thousands of people were very openly and unambiguously massacred by their own government in the past couple weeks and how my government, America, has been moving military assets into the region.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 00:25:
ICE has announced shrinking their operation in Minneapolis.
Just so everyone is clear, if you are carrying a gun, you are armed. Whether you are dangerous and posing a threat with it is another matter. The guy was armed. He was also aggressive enough to warrant further attention. He, likewise, showed up to where officers were doing officer things, WITH a gun in a crowd of people who have intent to mess around with law enforcement. Any one of these things is stupid, but all of them together mean you might become a drilled clown. Other stupid things you can do are to take a pistol to an army base full of army guys with guns and try to screw with their army stuff.
Aeolus, I suppose I would not trust myself either...
I sincerely hope things will somehow calm down, here and elsewhere.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 01:39:
Once the agents got the firearm, he was unarmed. He was shot while unarmed. Twitchy agents unable to take the heat shot an unarmed US citizen a dozen times. Once was probably plenty. Cops always get crap when this happens. I can't say if I'd have been cool in that position, but I'm not trained, entrusted, or paid to be. I'm just a schmuck who plays with test tubes all day.
Yeah. Imagine going to work to a terrible job because you are a bonehead and don't know what a test tube looks like. There are people threatening your family because someone doxed you. They fly you to a place where BLM vandalizes your hotel and you don't get to sleep much. People follow you around spitting in your face. There is a crowd pushing that wants to see you dead.
Someone yells 'gun' and your partners shove a man to the ground. You can't see his hands and you shoot. This happens very fast.
I'm not saying this is how it happened or approving it but this is just how things are.
Cops don't take chances because it's a job and they want to come home alive. It's not about politics for them but survival.
Threatening law enforcement is just a terrible idea. If they consider a threat credible they are authorized to kill you. And if it's not credible, you are a fool.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 02:08:
I mean, I have have had my family threatened and been doxed. It does put you on edge. But I don't get to hide behind a mask, a badge, a gun, or qualified immunity.
Yeah, far from ideal.
Or you disarm one very specific kind of gun agents use, which makes you think this guy is one of us, and probably has another gun or weapon on him. It's not like he brought a Saturday Night Special in to this party.
Yes, when you bring a gun and extra ammo to a riot there us a good chance you have another one.
I don't think ICE agents should carry guns. They're not enforcing any laws directly related to violence.
If they're carrying out an operation where violence is an element they should partner with the appropriate agency. Like the DEA, FBI, whatever agency has the correct expertise for the particular situation.
I think the fact that they're carrying speaks to their true mission, which isn't about enforcing laws - it's about intimidation.
@stack @bluesman - I unpublished a couple of your comments since they were veering off-topic and into personal insults territory. Feel free to rephrase your points in a way that is more in line with the Code of Conduct.
For the record, since this was brought up by @bluesman, @clseibold has been warned of his abrasive behavior on BBS on multiple occasions, over the past year or two, when interacting with a number of users. Alas, he declined to respect the rules.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 10:58:
@jprjr It's obvious to me ICE is not trained for nor should it be responsible for crowd control. A judge agrees and has limited ICE's ability. So why are they responsible in the first place? These events are stress tests for leadership all around. Is the state refusing to provide crowd control or is ICE refusing to coordinate with the state? Given the language and behavior out of the federal government, I'm willing to bet they refuse to coordinate with state and local law enforcement. And again, the disproportionate size reveals the end game: it is about stoking fear in the community.
As it was announced that ICE is pulling back some of its agents, Representative James Comer (not from Minnesota) might have revealed the strategy behind why ICE is stoking fear. He says that he hopes the people of Minnesota "rebel against their leadership" meaning state and local politicians.
Exactly. I think ICE should be an agency that flies under the radar. They shouldn't be out patrolling streets. They should be more like detectives - gather evidence and build a case. Get a warrant. Go make targeted, specific arrests. That's what would make the most sense given their supposed mission.
Imagine if an agency like the SEC patrolled Manhattan streets with guns. That would be ridiculous because they're not dealing with crimes that put anybody in immediate, life-threatening danger.
That's how I feel about ICE
Technically, they claim that they are in fact focusing on violent criminals.
Organized harrassment explains exactly why they are wearing masks and are armed to the teeth.
I do wish things were different, but what happened is like a greek tragedy, completely predictable, and I believe, entirely planned and acceptable to politicians.
They will have 'important talks' and 'save the world' again, soon.
Viewing this matter dispassionately ...
The videos I have seen show one individual turning and moving into the street away from the melee followed by another individual (located near the sidewalk) drawing and discharging his weapon.
The actions and timeline depicted tell me that:
1. Mr Pretti's pistol was removed from its holster and removed from the melee by the first individual.
2. When the pistol was removed it was seen by the second individual who perceived it to be a threat and then drew and used his own weapon.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 17:23:
@stack They may claim it. ICE is currently holding twice as many people who have no criminal record vs people who do, according to ICE's own data. ICE has held more people without a criminal record since September. If there is focus on violent criminals, it doesn't bear it in their own data.
Immigration shouldn't be treated as a dangerous crime.
If you want to go after dangerous criminals we have plenty of existing agencies that can handle dealing with dangerous criminals.
Let the US Marshals get people in custody then let ICE handle the deportation process.
They shouldn't be police-like agents, they should be white-collar bureaucrats. An ICE agent should be a guy that shows up with court orders, not guns.
Absolutely ridiculous that we're treating immigration issues like it's some kind of dangerous thing. We're ultimately talking about people who didn't do some paperwork. That's it. That's the crime.
Democratic operatives have been flooding the country with illegal immigrants to try to control the country and policy. This is an army. It is not simply just "immigrants".
That's crazy.
Well, they are saying that the focus is actual criminals. The reality is that these are hard to catch, so many abuelas get grabbed.
I don't think overstayed visas are the problem. Most 'illegals' had walked across the border, some after crossing many countries.
Most of them could never get a tourist visa.
You have to prove to th US that you have financial security, no criminal record, and have something/someone to come back to.
You pretty much have to have a job, own real estate and have family behind.
Having a large number of undocumented people presents a problem for the bureaucrats, as they have no idea who is a criminal and who would make a perfect citizen.
👻 darkghost · Jan 27 at 21:54:
That's a problem with what the administration is telling the public then. They should stop saying they're going after actual criminals and be truthful. I also want a pony while I'm wishing.
To date judges have ruled over 2,000 people have been detained illegally. And it has recently come to my attention that dozens of court orders have been ignored by ICE in recent weeks. I was keyed in by a judge summoning ICE director Todd Lyons to testify under overt threat of contempt of court if he fails to appear. Judge Schlitz wrote “the extent of ICE’s violation of court orders is likewise extraordinary, and lesser measures have been tried and failed. ... The Court’s patience is at an end"
This agency is beginning to look more and more lawless.
According to Factually, about half the detainees either have criminal convictions or are in the process of being convicted. Center for Immigration Studies has a multi-year study showing 36.2% convicted, 12.8% with pending charges and ~51% 'other immigration violator'.
Violent offences show <10%, with many convictions being for minor offences and possibly traffic violations.
Other sources are quoted there.
50% may sound bad, but in reality there is a high probability that the convicted offender has family that gets kicked out also.
I would be curious to see how many indpendent people with no convictions get rounded up. I suspect not too many.
But in the end, according to current laws, they should not be here anyway.
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 00:49:
I hit refresh on the factually link, because it said it was potentially out of date.
"Syracuse University’s TRAC and other compilers reported about 72 percent with no conviction as of September 21, 2025" other sources figure about this number as well. It does a good job explaining that "no conviction" doesn't mean "no threat."
Given the shift in policy a multi-year study is best for examining how policy was working before.
Yes, there are a few places where no-conviction is defined as 'with possible conviction pending'.
Sorry about the link, copied before clicking through to updated data.
I watched all the videos I could find, and now think that the first fed committed assault and should probably go up for felony murder. The other feds who fired appear to act within the law.
Having said that, bringing a gun to wrestle cops increases your probability of death significantly.
I question this man's judgment and sanity. He was was not in the crowd of protestors, but started directing traffic and definitely stepped in and got into the cop's face. It really feels like he felt empowered by having a loaded weapon...
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 12:15:
It's a tough watch. I try to unravel the events to determine the cause and effect.
I have a few questions I'd like you to reflect on. No need to repond with answers.
Do you think ICE got who they were after? Do you think that person had a criminal record? Is the ICE presence proportional and necessary?
@argyle yeah! and they also eat dogs! or cats....whatever
ICE absolutely should not be there. Also, borders, taxes, and entitlements.
But I don't want to get too off-topic.
The cause here, returning to the OP is that an irresponsible child brought a gun and extra ammo to a riot (no, he did not forget that he had it), walked around like a cockrel, got in the face of a fed doing his job (poorly) under a presidential order, and got himself shot. He made many bad choices that led to his unfortunate death. His family may get a few bucks because the one fed was out of line, but the others who shot him will probably keep qualified immunity.
Minnesota laws recognize a strict duty to retreat, so if he had tried to use his weapon it would be highly illegal -- he had many opportunities to _not_ go to the riot. In that state, if you have a chance to walk away but wind up using a firearm you go to jail. So please stop saying that he had a 'right' or pretending to support the Second Amendment.
Taking responsibility for one's actions is not something I see much of. Having a government to blame is a sign of not growing up. You can say ICE is responsible for this, or Trump. You can say it's the Democrat's fault for not providing an electable candidate. Maybe it's the founding fathers' fault for not making a better Constitution.
Or just don't bring a gun to a riot.
👻 darkghost · Jan 28 at 19:49:
I just learned he was suffering from a broken rib sustained from a recent encounter with ICE on another day. Whistling and shouting were what provoked ICE that time, according to people who knew about it. He sustained the injury when he was tackled and the agent leaned hard on his back. We don't have a video to judge that encounter and ICE kept no record of it. No word on if he had a firearm that time. But it is a reasonable assessment to say he repeatedly put himself in these situations. Now what provoked the events that lead to his death? We do have that video. It was a disproportionate response from an undisciplined agent. There's a lot of that from the top down, agency wide.
The second amendment argument is important. When the officials started down the same gaslighting path it riled traditional right wing organizations like the NRA. Suddenly, this event is getting an investigation, contrasted with the outright malfeasance after Renee Good was killed.
@crynick What I'm saying isn't political opinion. The left is using immigrants like it used African Americans after the Civil War. Ice is after the violent ones specifically, but really it is about having borders and a country. Othewise, the goal is to flood the US population out with foreign people who depend on the handouts the Democrats supply so they can get the votes and policies they want in place.
This thread is getting too long for meaningful discussion. Please make new posts about specific topics.
Original Post
Execution by ICE — Today a man was executed by ICE agents near Minneapolis, Minnesota. Videos have been circulated created by the diligent community members who have been tracking and recording everything ICE does. The national news outlets and social media platforms have been trying to remove these videos as they have shown just how corrupt this government has become. People need to be aware of this and start talking. For the past two months we have been working as a community to setup...